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	<title>Comments on: Where Does David Wilkins Live?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/where-does-david-wilkins-live/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/where-does-david-wilkins-live/</link>
	<description>Where Bad Maps Come From</description>
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		<title>By: Daria</title>
		<link>http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/where-does-david-wilkins-live/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daria]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I looked up additional names, which turns out to be really fun and addicting. But, I found out that DC is simply marked as a red dot on all maps. Another problem in the map, especially since red is one of the colors used for classification.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked up additional names, which turns out to be really fun and addicting. But, I found out that DC is simply marked as a red dot on all maps. Another problem in the map, especially since red is one of the colors used for classification.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendan</title>
		<link>http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/where-does-david-wilkins-live/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brendan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-109</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Late to the party, but I just wanted to point out - Texas isn&#039;t the only red area.  DC is also in the top category.  (Mildly ironic, I think.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Late to the party, but I just wanted to point out &#8211; Texas isn&#8217;t the only red area.  DC is also in the top category.  (Mildly ironic, I think.)</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Louwrens</title>
		<link>http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/where-does-david-wilkins-live/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Louwrens]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:01:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-75</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Remember that this is from the Whitepages, so users aren&#039;t there to see how many David Wilkins&#039; there are based on the population of the state.  They just want to know where David Wilkins might be, so I think the un-normalized works in this case.  I&#039;m not sure really the population of the state is really that relevant is it?

And also remember that this map is automatically produced based on your query, so having slightly irregular ranges, and a range for a single value could be forgiven for the fact that there is no human involved in the production of each map, and while it may work really well for one query (John Smith maybe?) it may not work so well for another.  I guess this really is the difference between rapidly produced map for quick information, and a cartographic work-of-art :)  or am I being too kind?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember that this is from the Whitepages, so users aren&#8217;t there to see how many David Wilkins&#8217; there are based on the population of the state.  They just want to know where David Wilkins might be, so I think the un-normalized works in this case.  I&#8217;m not sure really the population of the state is really that relevant is it?</p>
<p>And also remember that this map is automatically produced based on your query, so having slightly irregular ranges, and a range for a single value could be forgiven for the fact that there is no human involved in the production of each map, and while it may work really well for one query (John Smith maybe?) it may not work so well for another.  I guess this really is the difference between rapidly produced map for quick information, and a cartographic work-of-art :)  or am I being too kind?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Huffman</title>
		<link>http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/where-does-david-wilkins-live/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Huffman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-73</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dissent? We don&#039;t tolerate dissent around here!

You do make some very good points. Maybe I won&#039;t criticize maps when I&#039;m sick, anymore, as it seems to impair my thought processes and encourage me to say dissent-generating things.

I actually usually disagree with the whole normalize-by-population thing, as you and Zach do. But in this case I was willing to repeat the party line - though I did toy with the notion of making an argument that they should show the population density of David Wilkinses. Maybe it&#039;s because I just found it boring, which is an unfair criticism. What I think might be better, actually, would be to put a normalized and un-normalized map side-by-side on the page.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dissent? We don&#8217;t tolerate dissent around here!</p>
<p>You do make some very good points. Maybe I won&#8217;t criticize maps when I&#8217;m sick, anymore, as it seems to impair my thought processes and encourage me to say dissent-generating things.</p>
<p>I actually usually disagree with the whole normalize-by-population thing, as you and Zach do. But in this case I was willing to repeat the party line &#8211; though I did toy with the notion of making an argument that they should show the population density of David Wilkinses. Maybe it&#8217;s because I just found it boring, which is an unfair criticism. What I think might be better, actually, would be to put a normalized and un-normalized map side-by-side on the page.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/where-does-david-wilkins-live/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-71</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe it should remain un-normalized...the end user of this particular image isn&#039;t looking for the likelihood for the of a person in a state to be named &quot;X&quot;, in any averaging scheme, nor the density.  The end user is saying OK, I&#039;m looking for X - which listing will I pull up that shows the most X&#039;s.  Now if you wanted to break apart the map (and related data) into further subgroups to facilitate such an end user request, this is another story.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe it should remain un-normalized&#8230;the end user of this particular image isn&#8217;t looking for the likelihood for the of a person in a state to be named &#8220;X&#8221;, in any averaging scheme, nor the density.  The end user is saying OK, I&#8217;m looking for X &#8211; which listing will I pull up that shows the most X&#8217;s.  Now if you wanted to break apart the map (and related data) into further subgroups to facilitate such an end user request, this is another story.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Woodruff</title>
		<link>http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/where-does-david-wilkins-live/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy Woodruff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 04:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-70</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m inclined to dissent on a couple of the supposed cartastrophic aspects of this map. The only thing I fault it for is its use of white as you mentioned: the unlabeled white=0 and white on the main map for states that are not actually white in the insets. Oh, and the not-so-great color scheme.

The classification scheme I don&#039;t have a problem with, apart from perhaps the poor labeling of the single-member highest class. It&#039;s just an equal interval classification.  The class ranges aren&#039;t even because the whole range of 1-53 isn&#039;t divisible by 5. Hence three classes of 11 and two of 10 (11-10-11-10-11).  Granted, equal intervals don&#039;t provide a clear picture of the subtleties of the spatial distribution of a phenomenon, but they do give a pretty unbiased look at it. There is some value in seeing that the value is very low in a lot of the places and pretty high in just a couple of spots.  The trickiness of finding a balance is well illustrated by trying to map world countries by population: you can either have 80% of countries in the lowest class, or you can distribute them more evenly but entirely lose the fact that India has, like, &lt;em&gt;800 million&lt;/em&gt; more people than the next most populous country. (That&#039;s oversimplifying the options, I acknowledge.) How you classify it depends on what you&#039;re trying to convey.

Normalizing the data is another point I would dispute, though to do so is to be a bit more of a carto-rebel. Normalizing data, as you know, is a pretty strong rule in choropleth mapping, but I have come to agree with our pal Zach Johnson&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://indiemaps.com/blog/2008/04/choropleth-mapping-and-standardization/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;challenge&lt;/a&gt; of that notion, namely that normalizing by &lt;em&gt;area&lt;/em&gt; is the only thing that makes sense as a hard rule.  If not area, then it&#039;s fair to toss the normalization rule out the window if we want. Without normalization the map here does deliver on its promise to show the &quot;Distribution of David Wilkins Listings across the United States,&quot; and in fact to normalize it by anything other than area would actually be showing something else. But this is opening a whole different can of worms. Talk about thinking too much!

All that said, I&#039;d bet large sums of money that the developers of these maps didn&#039;t give a second of thought to those issues. Maybe it worked out for them... or maybe it didn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m inclined to dissent on a couple of the supposed cartastrophic aspects of this map. The only thing I fault it for is its use of white as you mentioned: the unlabeled white=0 and white on the main map for states that are not actually white in the insets. Oh, and the not-so-great color scheme.</p>
<p>The classification scheme I don&#8217;t have a problem with, apart from perhaps the poor labeling of the single-member highest class. It&#8217;s just an equal interval classification.  The class ranges aren&#8217;t even because the whole range of 1-53 isn&#8217;t divisible by 5. Hence three classes of 11 and two of 10 (11-10-11-10-11).  Granted, equal intervals don&#8217;t provide a clear picture of the subtleties of the spatial distribution of a phenomenon, but they do give a pretty unbiased look at it. There is some value in seeing that the value is very low in a lot of the places and pretty high in just a couple of spots.  The trickiness of finding a balance is well illustrated by trying to map world countries by population: you can either have 80% of countries in the lowest class, or you can distribute them more evenly but entirely lose the fact that India has, like, <em>800 million</em> more people than the next most populous country. (That&#8217;s oversimplifying the options, I acknowledge.) How you classify it depends on what you&#8217;re trying to convey.</p>
<p>Normalizing the data is another point I would dispute, though to do so is to be a bit more of a carto-rebel. Normalizing data, as you know, is a pretty strong rule in choropleth mapping, but I have come to agree with our pal Zach Johnson&#8217;s <a href="http://indiemaps.com/blog/2008/04/choropleth-mapping-and-standardization/" rel="nofollow">challenge</a> of that notion, namely that normalizing by <em>area</em> is the only thing that makes sense as a hard rule.  If not area, then it&#8217;s fair to toss the normalization rule out the window if we want. Without normalization the map here does deliver on its promise to show the &#8220;Distribution of David Wilkins Listings across the United States,&#8221; and in fact to normalize it by anything other than area would actually be showing something else. But this is opening a whole different can of worms. Talk about thinking too much!</p>
<p>All that said, I&#8217;d bet large sums of money that the developers of these maps didn&#8217;t give a second of thought to those issues. Maybe it worked out for them&#8230; or maybe it didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Huffman</title>
		<link>http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/where-does-david-wilkins-live/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Huffman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-69</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This blog is filled with many examples of thinking about things too much, so no worries =).

I&#039;m actually going to add a bit right now about the classification scheme, since you&#039;ve reminded me of another few things to talk about...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This blog is filled with many examples of thinking about things too much, so no worries =).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m actually going to add a bit right now about the classification scheme, since you&#8217;ve reminded me of another few things to talk about&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/where-does-david-wilkins-live/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tina]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cartastrophe.wordpress.com/?p=197#comment-68</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can you comment at all on the inconsistencies in the numerical ranges given?  I&#039;m looking at the second-place digits (the &quot;ones&quot; value) for the numbers in the lower end of the ranges, and that column reads 1 2 2 3 3.  The &quot;ones&quot; value for the numbers at the upper end of the range read 1 1 2 2 3.  But the number of possible values in those ranges are not consistent.  The red offers the possibility of 11 values, whereas the teal offers 10 possible values.  (Assuming that no states have a partial David Wilkins.)  So would the next range be 54-63 (in keeping with the numerical pattern) or 54-64,in keeping with the number of possible values in the ranges denoted by apple green and pale blue?  And how long will it take for the pattern to roll over - that is, how many more colors/ranges would we need until we&#039;re back to a &quot;ones&quot; value of 1 in both the upper and lower limit of the ranges?

Or am I thinking about this too much?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you comment at all on the inconsistencies in the numerical ranges given?  I&#8217;m looking at the second-place digits (the &#8220;ones&#8221; value) for the numbers in the lower end of the ranges, and that column reads 1 2 2 3 3.  The &#8220;ones&#8221; value for the numbers at the upper end of the range read 1 1 2 2 3.  But the number of possible values in those ranges are not consistent.  The red offers the possibility of 11 values, whereas the teal offers 10 possible values.  (Assuming that no states have a partial David Wilkins.)  So would the next range be 54-63 (in keeping with the numerical pattern) or 54-64,in keeping with the number of possible values in the ranges denoted by apple green and pale blue?  And how long will it take for the pattern to roll over &#8211; that is, how many more colors/ranges would we need until we&#8217;re back to a &#8220;ones&#8221; value of 1 in both the upper and lower limit of the ranges?</p>
<p>Or am I thinking about this too much?</p>
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